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Subject: RE: RE: Functional Spec : Increase the number of TCP connections - for review
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:57:06 -0800
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Thread-Topic: RE: Functional Spec : Increase the number of TCP connections - for review
Thread-Index: Acc83H7MadyOqtJqQluj02kZHxGfjAAHozGwACUViZ8ANKNhIAAHwhsQ
From: "Paul Hammer" <paul.hammer@onstor.com>
To: "Shamsudeen Jeseem" <jeseem@onstor.com>,
	"Jonathan Goldick" <jonathan.goldick@onstor.com>,
	"dl-Design Review" <dl-designreview@onstor.com>,
	"Narayan Venkat" <narayan.venkat@onstor.com>

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Understood but we should not have any code in the box to prevent someone
from trying to.

=20

________________________________

From: Shamsudeen Jeseem=20
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 12:19 PM
To: Paul Hammer; Jonathan Goldick; dl-Design Review; Narayan Venkat
Subject: RE: RE: Functional Spec : Increase the number of TCP
connections - for review

=20

Paul,

            128k connections will eat up a lot of memory,=20

So not advisable to support on low memory 2220.

=20

________________________________

From: Paul Hammer=20
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 11:15 AM
To: Jonathan Goldick; Shamsudeen Jeseem; dl-Design Review; Narayan
Venkat
Subject: RE: RE: Functional Spec : Increase the number of TCP
connections - for review

=20

Cheetah is supported but we have not defined the number of connections
in the MRD for this chaissis type. Jonathan is correct that the ECR is
from Toshiba and they are an all Cheetah enviorment (I believe).

=20

It was unclear to me why we need the cli commands for limitining the
number of connections, when/why would a customer chosse use this
command?

=20

Want us to be in sync on this; the number of connections is not the max,
it is the tested/supported limit, there is no enforced maximum by
chassis type, thus you should be able to attempt the same number of
connections on a 2220 as a 2280. This is how I understood the requirment
and what we discussed when we reviewed this requirement in the mRD
review. If I am correct then there is no hard limit of tcp connections.
Narayan please clarify this point, thanks..=20

=20

________________________________

From: Jonathan Goldick
Sent: Sat 1/20/2007 5:25 PM
To: Shamsudeen Jeseem; dl-Design Review; Narayan Venkat
Subject: RE: Functional Spec : Increase the number of TCP connections -
for review

1.      Update the copyright to 2007.  Jay made a new template somewhere
with all this stuff handled.

2.      In section 1, there is a typo in the MRD link, you have an extra
space in front of "Delorean MRD-PRD-REV1-7.xls"

3.      In section 4, is Cheetah really not required?  I only ask
because the MRD mentions Nissho by name and their customers have
Cheetah(s).  Narayan, please comment.

4.      In section 4, is CLUSDB_REC_TYPE_CORE_DUMP a typo?  I'm missing
why we would put this under core dump but perhaps this relates to the
comment in section 7 about avoiding a migration; it just seems confusing
so I thought I'd ask.  Anyways, is it really required that we make this
configurable?  Perhaps it's acceptable to just detect the model number
and set the value?  If we could make this hard-wired per model number
then we could cut out a number of the tasks and make this an easier
project and test effort.  Narayan, please comment.

5.      Can we make section 7.1 its own major section since testing is
not really a sub-chapter of Migration Strategy?

6.      In section 7.1, can we add a test where we send some load, even
if it's low, across all the connections?  We need to know if the number
of Ops we can service changes dramatically if the load is spread across
a lot of connections versus our normal tests with very few connections.

7.      In section 7.1, we probably should add a statement that we are
not able to make sure that this many connections will work properly with
LinkAggregation set up.  While inn practice I would expect customers to
use something to spread such a huge load around, we just don't have the
infrastructure to simulate that number of clients in a way that
exercises LinkAggregation.  This is probably more of a test about
whether the switches actually function properly anyways.

8.      Once you get all of this working in a networking sense we need
to determine whether it works in practice with so many CIFS or NFS
connections.  If we could handle 1000 CIFS logons with Kerberos in 10
seconds(making this number up for discussion purposes) then 32K CIFS
connections is about 5 minutes and makes sense, but is 128K really
achievable and across how much time would we have to spread the initial
connects to avoid overloading the auth-agent?  There is a similar issue
for NFS mounts with non-trivial export options (NIS netgroups).  While
what you are proposing looks pretty complete from a networking (NCPU)
layer, I think we need more on the CIFS/NFS/Auth-Agent layer changes
that might be required to make such a large number of connections
actually usable.


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Understood but we should not have =
any code
in the box to prevent someone from trying =
to.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
<st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Shamsudeen Jeseem</st1:PersonName> <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, January 22, =
2007
12:19 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Paul Hammer; Jonathan =
Goldick;
dl-Design Review; <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Narayan =
Venkat</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: RE: =
Functional Spec :
Increase the number of TCP connections - for =
review</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Paul,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
128k connections will eat up a lot of memory, =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So not advisable to support on low =
memory
2220.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
<st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Paul Hammer</st1:PersonName> <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sunday, January 21, =
2007
11:15 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Jonathan Goldick; =
<st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Shamsudeen Jeseem</st1:PersonName>; dl-Design Review; =
<st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Narayan Venkat</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: RE: =
Functional Spec :
Increase the number of TCP connections - for =
review</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div id=3DidOWAReplyText78711>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Cheetah is supported but we have =
not
defined the number of connections in the MRD for this chaissis type. =
Jonathan
is correct that the ECR is from Toshiba and they are an all Cheetah =
enviorment
(I believe).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>It was unclear to me why we need the cli commands for
limitining the number of connections, when/why would a =
customer&nbsp;chosse use
this command?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Want us to be in sync on this; the number of =
connections is not
the max, it is the tested/supported limit, there is no enforced maximum =
by
chassis type, thus you should be able to attempt the same number of =
connections
on a 2220 as a 2280. This is how I understood the requirment and what we
discussed when we reviewed this requirement in the mRD review. If I am =
correct
then there is no hard limit of tcp connections. Narayan please clarify =
this
point, thanks.. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Jonathan
Goldick<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sat 1/20/2007 5:25 =
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">Shamsudeen
 Jeseem</st1:PersonName>; dl-Design Review; <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">Narayan
 Venkat</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: Functional =
Spec :
Increase the number of TCP connections - for =
review</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>1.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></font> <font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Update
the copyright to 2007.&nbsp; Jay made a new template somewhere with all =
this
stuff handled.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>2.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></font> <font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>In
section 1, there is a typo in the MRD link, you have an extra space in =
front of
&#8220;Delorean MRD-PRD-REV1-7.xls&#8221;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>3.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></font> <font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>In
section 4, is Cheetah really not required?&nbsp; I only ask because the =
MRD
mentions Nissho by name and their customers have =
Cheetah(s).&nbsp;</span></font>
<font size=3D2 color=3Dred face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";color:red'>Narayan, please =
comment.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>4.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></font> <font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>In
section 4, is</span></font> <font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>CLUSDB_REC_TYPE_CORE_DUMP a
typo?&nbsp; I'm missing why we would put this under core dump but =
perhaps this
relates to the comment in section 7 about avoiding a migration; it just =
seems
confusing so I thought I&#8217;d ask.&nbsp; Anyways, is it really =
required that
we make this configurable?&nbsp; Perhaps it&#8217;s acceptable to just =
detect
the model number and set the value?&nbsp; If we could make this =
hard-wired per
model number then we could cut out a number of the tasks and make this =
an
easier project and test effort.&nbsp;</span></font> <font size=3D2 =
color=3Dred
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
color:red'>Narayan, please comment.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>5.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></font> <font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Can
we make section 7.1 its own major section since testing is not really a
sub-chapter of Migration Strategy?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>6.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></font> <font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>In
section 7.1, can we add a test where we send some load, even if =
it&#8217;s low,
across all the connections?&nbsp; We need to know if the number of Ops =
we can
service changes dramatically if the load is spread</span></font> <font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>across
a lot of connections versus our normal tests with very few =
connections.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>7.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></font> <font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>In
section 7.1, we probably should add a statement that we are not able to =
make
sure that this many connections will work properly with LinkAggregation =
set
up.&nbsp; While inn practice I would expect customers to use something =
to
spread such a huge load around, we just don&#8217;t have the =
infrastructure to
simulate that number of clients in a way that exercises =
LinkAggregation.&nbsp;
This is probably more of a test about whether the switches actually =
function
properly anyways.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>8.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></font> <font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Once
you get all of this working in a networking sense we need to determine =
whether
it works in practice with so many CIFS or NFS connections.&nbsp; If we =
could
handle 1000 CIFS logons with Kerberos in 10 seconds(making this number =
up for
discussion purposes) then 32K CIFS connections is about 5 minutes and =
makes
sense, but is 128K really achievable and across how much time would we =
have to
spread the initial connects to avoid overloading the auth-agent?&nbsp; =
There is
a similar issue for NFS mounts with non-trivial export options =
(<st1:place
w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on">NIS</st1:City></st1:place> =
netgroups).&nbsp;
While what you are proposing looks pretty complete from a networking =
(NCPU)
layer, I think we need more on the CIFS/NFS/Auth-Agent layer changes =
that might
be required to make such a large number of connections actually =
usable.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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